(This is certainly telling, isn't it?)

From: https://shorturl.at/C1S7D (dailycaller.com)

===
Nearly 100 Democrats Refuse To Condemn Socialism In Party-Shattering Vote

Adam Pack Reporter
November 21, 2025 11:19 AM ET

The House of Representatives approved a resolution condemning the "horrors
of socialism" Friday morning in a vote that sharply divided Democratic
lawmakers.

Lawmakers voted 285 to 98 in favor of the measure offered by Republican
Florida Rep. Maria Elvira Salazar, the daughter of Cuban exiles, that
denounced socialism in "all its forms" and socialist policies in the
United States. More than seven dozen Democrats backed the resolution,
including House Democratic leadership.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, who is viewed as a leader of
the Democratic Party's left flank, opposed the measure condemning
socialism.

Two Democratic lawmakers, North Carolina Rep. Deborah Ross and Oregon Rep.
Janelle Bynum, voted "present" on the resolution.

All voting Republicans supported Salazar's resolution. Twenty Republicans
did not vote.

The vote comes as support for socialism is on the rise across the country
with proudly socialist candidates winning mayoral races in New York City
and Seattle this November.

New York City mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani has proposed raising the minimum
wage to $30, launching government-run grocery stores and making the city's
bus system free to ride. Mamdani has sidestepped questions about how he
intends to pay for the free buses after Democratic New York Governor Kathy
Hochul balked at raising taxes.

An increasingly larger portion of Democrats prefer socialism to
capitalism, according to a Gallup poll released in September. The poll
found that 66% of Democrats hold a positive view of socialism compared to
44% who view capitalism favorably.

Republicans slammed their Democratic counterparts for opposing the
resolution.

"There is nothing `controversial' about denouncing a poisonous, failed,
and deadly ideology," Salazar, whose parents fled Cuba when communist
Fidel Castro took power, wrote on X. "Socialism will never take root in
the United States. Not while I'm here to stop it."

Democrats, led by California Rep. Maxine Waters, argued the resolution was
a waste of time and said the lower chamber should be focused on lowering
costs for Americans.

Democrats' diverging positions on the resolution showed that socialism
remains politically toxic outside liberal enclaves.

House Democrats who are running for Senate in next year's midterm
elections notably supported the resolution condemning socialist policies.

Democratic Reps. Chris Pappas of New Hampshire, Haley Stevens of Michigan
and Angie Craig of Minnesota voted "yes."

House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, who also supported the resolution,
dodged questions probing his views on socialism Thursday.

"I plan on voting in the manner consistent with how I have voted in the
past," Jeffries, who is facing a socialist primary challenger, said while
exiting a press conference without specifying his position.

When pressed whether he condemns socialism, Jeffries repeated the same
statement.

"Listen, I believe as Democrats, that we believe in a country where we
have a strong floor and no ceiling," Jeffries added. "That's what we
believe in as Democrats, that when you work hard and play by the rules in
the United States of America, there should be no ceiling to the success
that you can achieve for yourself and for your family and for your
community.

"Strong floor, no ceiling," Jeffries said again.

"At the same period of time, we believe in a strong floor," the minority
leader repeated for the third time.

The minority later did not say whether he condemned socialism.
===

-- Sean

... Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Democrats, led by California Rep. Maxine Waters, argued the resolution was
a waste of time and said the lower chamber should be focused on lowering
costs for Americans.

While I agree with the sentiment behind the resolution, considering that
the resolution doesn't actually do anything I find myself (for once!) in agreement with Waters here.

As I doubt this resolution will do anything to curb any possible rise of socialism in our big cities, I hope they didn't waste too much time on said resolution.

Mike

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The House of Representatives approved a resolution condemning the "horrors

> of socialism" Friday morning in a vote that sharply divided Democratic
> lawmakers.

Lawmakers voted 285 to 98 in favor of the measure offered by Republican

> Florida Rep. Maria Elvira Salazar, the daughter of Cuban exiles, that
> denounced socialism in "all its forms" and socialist policies in the
> United States. More than seven dozen Democrats backed the resolution,
> including House Democratic leadership.

All voting Republicans supported Salazar's resolution. Twenty Republicans

> did not vote.

I may be ill informed on the exact details in this story but the word 'socialism' covers a lot of territory so banning it 'in all its forms'
may be a little extreme..

Canada is referred to by many as a Socialist Democracy, yet is one
of the most popular countries in the world people want to immigrate to.

The reality is we are just slightly more 'Socilaistic' than the USA
since we try to offer more healthcare and such at no cost to the user
rather than only being available to those who are wealthy or well
enough off to afford the insurance to cover such things, and we have
subsidies and benefits for some people simply based on their low
income, yet there's still lots of room for a person the get wealthy
if they are smart (and/or lucky) and work hard.

Like with most things, it'd usually the extremes that are bad,
and that tends to go for extremes in both directions.

---
* SLMR Rob * Take full advantage of your compromises
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Re: Socialist "Democrats"
By: Rob Mccart to DIGIMAUS on Sun Nov 23 2025 08:13:46

I may be ill informed on the exact details in this story but the word 'socialism' covers a lot of territory so banning it 'in all its forms'
may be a little extreme..

It was a resolution comdemning the "horrors of socialism"... think Cuba and Venezuela... and doesn't really do anything as best as I can tell. In other words, no ban.

Mike
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(This is certainly telling, isn't it?)

Yes, but we've long known that the Democrat party was gone a long time ago, replaced by the Socialist party.

But the standard play for people like that is to take a trusted instiution, infiltrate it, hollow it out and wear it as a skin suit. But sooner or later, that skin suit will rot away and everyone can see what's actually inside.

... We all live in a yellow subroutine...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Classic BBS (618:250/46)

Hello Mike,

23 Nov 25 08:47, you wrote to Rob Mccart:

It was a resolution comdemning the "horrors of socialism"... think
Cuba and Venezuela... and doesn't really do anything as best as I can tell. In other words, no ban.

It was a Congressional opinion and a telling one at that. It called out the socialists who are pretending to be Democrats.

Well, I should say they called themselves out...

-- Sean


... "O Lord, help me to be pure, but not yet." - Saint Augustine
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Hello Dr,

23 Nov 25 08:09, you wrote to digimaus:

Yes, but we've long known that the Democrat party was gone a long time ago, replaced by the Socialist party.

Socialism is just Communism Lite.

But the standard play for people like that is to take a trusted instiution, infiltrate it, hollow it out and wear it as a skin suit.
But sooner or later, that skin suit will rot away and everyone can see what's actually inside.

That's why I said it was telling: the socialists outed themselves very easily and loudly,

The Democrats have been socialists as long as I can remember.

We do have some "socialist" programs: Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, et al. I never minded paying taxes to help the needy and disabled. What I don't like is how much fraud there is in these programs and how lax the left is to enforce the rules.

I know several Democrats that have left the Damocrat Party as they don't agree with how "communist" (their words) their party has become.

-- Sean


... 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

On 23 Nov 25 08:13:46, Rob Mccart said the following to Digimaus:

Canada is referred to by many as a Socialist Democracy, yet is one
of the most popular countries in the world people want to immigrate to.

I understand the sentiment, even as my visceral reaction is to ask "Do you
live here". The feelings tend to be a little different expressed by people
who immigrate and eventually figure out that:

- Its difficult to immigrate "normally" unless you aim for the refugee route.
- Even then, refugees are often dumped in Toronto, homeless and destitute.
- No such thing as freedom of speech but there are "hate speech" laws.
- Immigrants from cultures do not take too kindly to overabundance of LGBTQ.
- Government regulation and taxes are high.
- High "Minimum wage" results in higher cost of goods, cost of living etc.
- High unemployment in major cities immigrants decide to settle in.
- Rental apartments/housing are EXTREMELY difficult to secure in big cities.

To say nothing of the huge culture clash... ie. the palestinians, Muslims, Sikh's, Nigerians, Jamaicans, Saudi's, you name it, a ton of gang violence, gun crimes, sex crimes, trafficking etc... not an exaggeration.

Did I mention our socialist healthcare system is broken with long wait times, crowded ER's, a shortage of doctors and nurses, constant threat of union strikes etc? Immigrants find it nearly impossible to secure a family doctor so the walk-in clinics are slammed, jam packed, a very sad site to see up close.

Yes there are many who "make it" here, but its not the sunshine and roses socialist-democracy paradise often touted as a model the Americans should follow.

Just my two cents...

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
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Hello Mike,

22 Nov 25 10:27, you wrote to DIGIMAUS:

As I doubt this resolution will do anything to curb any possible rise
of socialism in our big cities, I hope they didn't waste too much time
on said resolution.

Considering Maxine Waters voted against it, I think she's mad that the soicialists got called out, that's all. As for hewr complaining "wasting time", that's all she's done is stall, stall, stall. Just look at her voting record.

This resolution wasn't really meant to do anything but call out the socialists in Congress. I'm aurprised you didn't see that angle.

-- Sean

... Congress is the opposite of Progress.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Hello Rob,

23 Nov 25 08:13, you wrote to DIGIMAUS:

I may be ill informed on the exact details in this story but the word 'socialism' covers a lot of territory so banning it 'in all its forms'
may be a little extreme..

This was a non-binding resolution to call out the socialists in Congress. That's all it was.

As for socialism, I will quote the late great Margaret Thatcher: "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

-- Sean

... If your advance is going well, you are walking into an ambush.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Re: Socialist "Democrats"
By: Sean Dennis to Dr. What on Sun Nov 23 2025 15:24:35

Socialism is just Communism Lite.

Is that anything like Bud Lite? ;)

We do have some "socialist" programs: Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, et al. I never minded paying taxes to help the needy and disabled. What I don't like is how much fraud there is in these programs and how lax the left is to enforce the rules.

+1

I know several Democrats that have left the Damocrat Party as they don't agr with how "communist" (their words) their party has become.

Were they our age? When I was in college, the people who most loudly proclaimed that they were "Democrats" were all social/communists.

Mike
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Re: Socialist "Democrats"
By: Sean Dennis to Mike Powell on Sun Nov 23 2025 20:48:08

Hello Mike,

22 Nov 25 10:27, you wrote to DIGIMAUS:

As I doubt this resolution will do anything to curb any possible rise of socialism in our big cities, I hope they didn't waste too much time on said resolution.

Considering Maxine Waters voted against it, I think she's mad that the soicialists got called out, that's all. As for hewr complaining "wasting time", that's all she's done is stall, stall, stall. Just look at her votin record.

I read it a couple of times and wasn't real clear on which way she voted, but that does figure.

This resolution wasn't really meant to do anything but call out the socialis in Congress. I'm aurprised you didn't see that angle.

As I would have assumed most of the ones called out were already known socialists, I would not have been looking for that angle. ;)

Mike
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Mike Powell wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

Is that anything like Bud Lite? ;)

A lousy substitute for thr real thing, I guess...

Were they our age? When I was in college, the people who most loudly proclaimed that they were "Democrats" were all social/communists.

They were more Blue Dog Democrats and still are. They weren't members
of SDA, for sure.

-- Sean
... Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

I may be ill informed on the exact details in this story but the word

> 'socialism' covers a lot of territory so banning it 'in all its forms'
> may be a little extreme..
>

It was a resolution comdemning the "horrors of socialism"... think Cuba

>and Venezuela... and doesn't really do anything as best as I can tell.
>In other words, no ban.

I can understand not wanting anything to do with the Commnist Dictator
type of Socialism, so maybe it was just a confusing use of the word,
especially with the addition of 'in all its forms'..

---
* SLMR Rob * Tough times don't last - Tough people DO
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It was a resolution comdemning the "horrors of socialism"... think
Cuba and Venezuela... and doesn't really do anything as best as I can
tell. In other words, no ban.

It was a Congressional opinion and a telling one at that. It called

>out the socialists who are pretending to be Democrats.

Well, I should say they called themselves out...

In Canada we usually have 3 main parties, Prograssive Conservative and
Liberal, which would closely equate to the US Republican and Democrats
parties, and then we have a third even more Left party called the NDP
(National Democratic Party) which usually wants to take the more
Socialist ideas too far, to the point where if they were given free
reign would drive wealthy people out of the country and bankrupt it,
so it can definitely be taken too far in a country that depends on
people working and paying taxes to provide the government with funds.

The NDP have a use when there's a non majority gov't and they will
vote to help the minority gov't put things through in exchange for some
benefit for the (usually) poor people that they wanted to have added.

i.e.. In one of these deals a while back they got through a plan
that for lower income people covers most of their dental bills.

---
* SLMR Rob * You can win ANY game if YOU get to make the Rules
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Canada is referred to by many as a Socialist Democracy, yet is one
of the most popular countries in the world people want to immigrate to.

I understand the sentiment, even as my visceral reaction is to ask "Do you

>live here". The feelings tend to be a little different expressed by people
>who immigrate and eventually figure out that:

- Its difficult to immigrate "normally" unless you aim for the refugee route.

>- Even then, refugees are often dumped in Toronto, homeless and destitute.
>- No such thing as freedom of speech but there are "hate speech" laws.
>- Immigrants from cultures do not take too kindly to overabundance of LGBTQ.
>- Government regulation and taxes are high.
>- High "Minimum wage" results in higher cost of goods, cost of living etc.
>- High unemployment in major cities immigrants decide to settle in.
>- Rental apartments/housing are EXTREMELY difficult to secure in big cities.

I appreciate your comments and admit that things these days are nothing
like they were in the past. There used to be very few refugees, and that
has changed dramatically and gone too far in the last couple of decades.

I guess I was thinking more how things were in the past before they
got carried away with immigration and refugees so, appologies for
generalizing, although Canada is still very high on the list of
countries people want to come to.. The popularity numbers vary by site
but most of them still show Canada in the top 5 countries in the world.

Immigrants used to have to show they had a skill to get a job and
were usually sponsored by people already living here who would
support, and possibly house them, and pay their living costs until
they found a job and could support themselves.

---
* SLMR Rob * The price of awareness is eternal uncertainty
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As for socialism, I will quote the late great Margaret Thatcher: "The problem

>with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."

Yes, I almost said in an earlier reply that being too Socialist can
do a lot of damage to a country and England was a good example of
going too far and suffering for it, at least in the past. I don't have
accurate current details but they drove a lot of business and wealthy
people from the country when things got too far out of line earlier.

Countries like Canada and Australia learned not to get too carried away
for the most part from seeing how things went in England.

---
* SLMR Rob * Whatever you do you'll regret it
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I may be ill informed on the exact details in this story but the word

> 'socialism' covers a lot of territory so banning it 'in all its forms'
> may be a little extreme..
>

It was a resolution comdemning the "horrors of socialism"... think Cuba

>and Venezuela... and doesn't really do anything as best as I can tell.
>In other words, no ban.

I can understand not wanting anything to do with the Commnist Dictator
type of Socialism, so maybe it was just a confusing use of the word, especially with the addition of 'in all its forms'..

There is some understandable concern, I guess, due to the fact that one of
our largest cities elected an outwardly socialist candidate as their mayor
and businesses are already threatening to leave because of it.

Supposedly -- I have not confirmed this -- the NYSE will eventually be relocated to Texas as a result of his just leading the polls earlier this
year.


* SLMR 2.1a * Money is the Root of All Evil. For more info, send $10.
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Immigrants used to have to show they had a skill to get a job and
were usually sponsored by people already living here who would
support, and possibly house them, and pay their living costs until
they found a job and could support themselves.

Last I checked, if you are not a "refugee" (or, are a white male like
myself), Canada still wants you to have a skill -- and one they are looking
for -- in order to immigrate.


* SLMR 2.1a * Tact is for weenies.
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Hello Mike,

25 Nov 25 11:12, you wrote to ROB MCCART:

Supposedly -- I have not confirmed this -- the NYSE will eventually be relocated to Texas as a result of his just leading the polls earlier
this year.

I have not heard that but if that were true, that would be a very devastating blow to NYC to lose its status as a major financial center.

The only reason Austin hasn't gone full socialist is because the rest of the state would kick its collective ass if it did. LOL

-- Sean

... If a circuit cannot fail, it will.
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* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Re: Socialist "Democrats"
By: Sean Dennis to Mike Powell on Tue Nov 25 2025 12:37:57

I have not heard that but if that were true, that would be a very devastatin blow to NYC to lose its status as a major financial center.

I did a quick web search. The NYSE is moving a part of their operations to Dallas, but the part being moved is currently located in Chicago. The reasoning behind the move is that Texas is more business friendly.

Mike
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When I was in college, the people who most loudly proclaimed

> that they were "Democrats" were all social/communists.

They always used to say that young people were Liberals and,
as they got older, turned into Conservatives..

It's been said (arguably) that Communism is the best form of government
but the problem is it relies on total honesty for it to work properly
so, knowing humans, it's never going to work.
Pretty much all communist countries have a VERY weathy small upper
class and a very poor everyone else in a system where everyone is
supposed to, in theory, share everything equally.

So, in the end, if working hard gets you nothing extra then the only
way to beat the system is to do as little work as you can possibly
get away with, then you make the same as your neighbour does while
doing less work than they do. Commie countries aren't usually well
known for their high production output..

Now, before I get labelled a Commie, I've gone against the more
socialistic leanings in Canada since day one. You see the same
thing with strong unions. It's almost impossible to fire someone
so why work any harder than absolutely necessary?

I always worked harder and that got me raises and promotions
that others didn't get much of the time, plus threats from the
union to go with it.

But, that said, extremes are never good. Being too far on the
Capitalistic side is abusive to a lot of the population as well.
That's how all those nasty unions came about.. B)

---
* SLMR Rob * It's dangerous to assume anything and stop looking
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Re: Socialist "Democrats"
By: Rob Mccart to MIKE POWELL on Wed Nov 26 2025 08:05:00

When I was in college, the people who most loudly proclaimed

> that they were "Democrats" were all social/communists.

They always used to say that young people were Liberals and,
as they got older, turned into Conservatives..

The ones I have kept "in touch" with (on FB) did not turn conservative. They were mostly "left" of "Liberal" and still very much are. ;)

It's been said (arguably) that Communism is the best form of government
but the problem is it relies on total honesty for it to work properly
so, knowing humans, it's never going to work.
Pretty much all communist countries have a VERY weathy small upper
class and a very poor everyone else in a system where everyone is
supposed to, in theory, share everything equally.

Communism can work if it is voluntary, i.e. one joins a commune and one can leave if one doesn't like it. As a form of government, it can never really work because it is compulsary and many folks won't like receiving the same reward for hard work while watching others that are rewarded for doing just the bare minimum.

The only way that communism can work as a government choice is if that government is also authoritarian and "takes care of" desenters like the USSR, China, and North Korea did/do.

So, in the end, if working hard gets you nothing extra then the only
way to beat the system is to do as little work as you can possibly
get away with, then you make the same as your neighbour does while
doing less work than they do. Commie countries aren't usually well
known for their high production output..

Exactly! ;)

But, that said, extremes are never good. Being too far on the
Capitalistic side is abusive to a lot of the population as well.
That's how all those nasty unions came about.. B)

IMHO, this is not a problem with capitalism, per se. It is a problem with the government not properly regulating things. Overregulation is bad, but so is too little... see what is happening right now with the US Congress and their own insider trading as one example of under-regulation being bad.

Mike
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Rob Mccart wrote to MIKE POWELL <=-

But, that said, extremes are never good. Being too far on the
Capitalistic side is abusive to a lot of the population as well.
That's how all those nasty unions came about.. B)

Americans increasingly don't believe in meritocracy because they are
used to getting everything handed to them.

-- Sean

... Censorship is a disease that will spread if not treated quickly.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Mike Powell wrote to Rob Mccart <=-

The only way that communism can work as a government choice is if that government is also authoritarian and "takes care of" desenters like the USSR, China, and North Korea did/do.

Communism brings out greed and the thirst for absolute power in people.

Capitalistic side is abusive to a lot of the population as well.
That's how all those nasty unions came about.. B)

The unions served their purpose. They don't have any purpose anymore
because, if you look close, unions are a form of communism and they
suffer the same issues as I listed above.

-- Sean

... Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

I can understand not wanting anything to do with the Commnist Dictator

>> type of Socialism, so maybe it was just a confusing use of the word,
>> especially with the addition of 'in all its forms'..

There is some understandable concern, I guess, due to the fact that one of

>our largest cities elected an outwardly socialist candidate as their mayor
>and businesses are already threatening to leave because of it.

Supposedly -- I have not confirmed this -- the NYSE will eventually be

>relocated to Texas as a result of his just leading the polls earlier this
>year.

Sounds like some of his plans were really bad.. I wouldn't think that
a Mayor could make sweeping enough changes to be that big a problem
but I don't know enough about it there to accuaretly comment.

Here a Premier (think 'Governor') has a fair amount of power but
it never seemed Mayors could do too much other than in a limited
area, and there are lots of controls to get things passed.
Of course I guess the size of the city dictates how 'limited' the
area of influence might be..

Hard to guess what he could do to the NYSE. Something like that
wouldn't seem to be under Mayoral control in any way..

---
* SLMR Rob * If the fox is smiling check the chicken coop
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Immigrants used to have to show they had a skill to get a job and

>> were usually sponsored by people already living here who would
>> support, and possibly house them, and pay their living costs until
>> they found a job and could support themselves.

Last I checked, if you are not a "refugee" (or, are a white male like

>myself), Canada still wants you to have a skill -- and one they are looking
>for -- in order to immigrate.

Yes, especially now after the last 10 years or so when things got
out of hand. They're trying to reverse that past trend under Tudeau.

Our new PM is already making changes and a lot of immigrants are
being told they must leave once their (usually student) visa is up
and that's already lowering the cost of housing somewhat, as much
as 25% in some areas and usually over 10% in most places.

Of course the Universities are not happy because they charge
foreign students a lot more than they do Canadian residents,
and new applicants for that are being cut way back.

The expired student visa thing was that a lot of students who
graduated didn't want to leave the country and return home.

---
* SLMR Rob * Nothing succeeds like Excess
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The only reason Austin hasn't gone full socialist is because the

>rest of the state would kick its collective ass if it did. LOL

There would probably need to be a pretty thorough gun collection
done before they announced that.. B)

(And I wouldn't want to be the one collecting those guns..)

---
* SLMR Rob * Three can keep a secret... If two of them are dead
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Rob Mccart wrote to SEAN DENNIS <=-

(And I wouldn't want to be the one collecting those guns..)

I have a friend who is native to this area that has said ":they can have
my guns, one bullet at a time." LOL

-- Sean


... If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

They always used to say that young people were Liberals and,

> > as they got older, turned into Conservatives..

The ones I have kept "in touch" with (on FB) did not turn conservative. They

>re mostly "left" of "Liberal" and still very much are. ;)

Really.. Often once they get out there and start making money, and trying
to make enough to have a good life, they realize that the less socialist systems give a lot more room for advancement. The idea of treating
everyone the same no matter how bad they are also treats those who are exceptional worse than they deserve due to Union Contracts and such.

It's been said (arguably) that Communism is the best form of government

> > but the problem is it relies on total honesty for it to work properly
> > so, knowing humans, it's never going to work.
> > Pretty much all communist countries have a VERY weathy small upper
> > class and a very poor everyone else in a system where everyone is
> > supposed to, in theory, share everything equally.

Communism can work if it is voluntary, i.e. one joins a commune and one can l

>e if one doesn't like it. As a form of government, it can never really work
>ause it is compulsary and many folks won't like receiving the same reward for
>rd work while watching others that are rewarded for doing just the bare minim

In a True communist setup, people are evaluated at a very young age
and trained to do a job they are naturally going to be talented at.
Everyone is expected to do a fair day's work and all are given the
same living conditions regardless of their actual job, but that's the
fantasy. Someone has to be in charge of things and they always set
themselves up (and their friends and families) as an upper class, and
it always seems to be a very greedy class and you end up with 75%
of the money going to 2% of the people..

I mean, look at Putin.. He was just an upper level KGB soldier
when he took over as president and today he is worth as much
as $200 Billion, depending on source. (Some say $70 Billion)

The only way that communism can work as a government choice is if that govern

>t is also authoritarian and "takes care of" desenters like the USSR, China, a
>North Korea did/do.

Yes, there has to be some control to avoid that laziness as a plus
situation I mentioned.

But, that said, extremes are never good. Being too far on the

> > Capitalistic side is abusive to a lot of the population as well.
> > That's how all those nasty unions came about.. B)

IMHO, this is not a problem with capitalism, per se. It is a problem with th

>overnment not properly regulating things. Overregulation is bad, but so is t
>little...

I was thinking back before unions existed where people running companies
paid workers so little they could barely afford to eat but the owners
were getting wealthy from their labour. Unions came in to correct that situation, but in some cases they have gone too far now too..

I think things are not too bad when you have some controls like minimum
wage levels, maximum hours to work and safety standards, but I'm still
a proponent of being able to get ahead faster is you are smarter or
a harder worker. Over the years I benefitted more from employers
breaking the union contract for me than any good the union ever did
for me. But I saw how the union was really great for some who were
lazy, incompetent, or absent a lot and such. I watched it take almost
3 years to get rid of one worker who was missing over 100 days of work
a year due to drinking problems..

---
* SLMR Rob * Animal rights week - Take a Beaver to lunch
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

But, that said, extremes are never good. Being too far on the
Capitalistic side is abusive to a lot of the population as well.
That's how all those nasty unions came about.. B)

Americans increasingly don't believe in meritocracy because they are

>used to getting everything handed to them.

I see that in Canada as well.. Young people especially do not want to
work. My mother used to go crazy trying to find a highschool kid
who would cut her grass for $50 an hour..

Makes me sick when I think of me working 35 hours a week after
school back when I was that age..

---
* SLMR Rob * If you can't do the time - Don't do the Crime
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Hello Rob,

28 Nov 25 11:43, you wrote to DIGIMAUS:

I see that in Canada as well.. Young people especially do not want to work. My mother used to go crazy trying to find a highschool kid
who would cut her grass for $50 an hour..

I used to mow lawns for a buck back in the 80s.

Makes me sick when I think of me working 35 hours a week after
school back when I was that age..

Fast food places locally are paying more than IT jobs in my area. If I can ever work again, I'll go be a cashier at a fast food joint, screw my degree. XD

-- Sean

... We now return to our regularly scheduled flamethrowing.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

(And I wouldn't want to be the one collecting those guns..)

I have a friend who is native to this area that has said ":they can have

>my guns, one bullet at a time." LOL

Yes, a lot of similar ones to that, '... from my cold dead hands'..

You get more done with a kind word and a gun than with a
kind word alone.. Al Capone

Some gun trivia I ran across.. (Most older)

There are more gun shops than gas stations in the USA..

In 1991 there were 68 million guns in Texas, 4 for every person..

In Missouri a child can purchase a shotgun but is prohibited
from purchasing a cap pistol.

The USA has twice as many gun murders as the next 24 richest
countries combined..

---
* SLMR Rob * Something is out there -- and it is laughing at us
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Rob Mccart wrote to DIGIMAUS <=-

I have a friend who is native to this area that has said ":they can have

>my guns, one bullet at a time." LOL

Yes, a lot of similar ones to that, '... from my cold dead hands'..

You get more done with a kind word and a gun than with a
kind word alone.. Al Capone

Some gun trivia I ran across.. (Most older)

There are more gun shops than gas stations in the USA..

I highly doubt that is true.

In 1991 there were 68 million guns in Texas, 4 for every person..

In Missouri a child can purchase a shotgun but is prohibited
from purchasing a cap pistol.

Absolutely not true.

The USA has twice as many gun murders as the next 24 richest
countries combined..

Probably true.


... I often wonder what people have against the horse I rode in on.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.32-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (618:250/24)

Supposedly -- I have not confirmed this -- the NYSE will eventually be

>relocated to Texas as a result of his just leading the polls earlier this
>year.

Sounds like some of his plans were really bad.. I wouldn't think that
a Mayor could make sweeping enough changes to be that big a problem
but I don't know enough about it there to accuaretly comment.

Here a Premier (think 'Governor') has a fair amount of power but
it never seemed Mayors could do too much other than in a limited
area, and there are lots of controls to get things passed.
Of course I guess the size of the city dictates how 'limited' the
area of influence might be..

Hard to guess what he could do to the NYSE. Something like that
wouldn't seem to be under Mayoral control in any way..

Mayors very much have sway here, at least in larger cities, when it comes
to setting the fiscal policy -- like proposing new city taxes. In most
cities, they have to work with the local council or board of alderman
which, if they are mostly all from the same party often means little resistance. Together, they can really make a city business friendly, or very much not, depending on which path they choose.

Threatening to raise taxes on "the rich" and "businesses" would be an indication to either category that it might be time to relocate. That is
what Mandami campaigned on.

I looked it up in the meantime. The part of the NYSE that is moving to
Dallas is currently located in Chicago. Sounds like it is some sort of
tech center.

Mike

* SLMR 2.1a * You could be reading the next message by now.
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Of course the Universities are not happy because they charge
foreign students a lot more than they do Canadian residents,
and new applicants for that are being cut way back.

Interesting. My niece is deciding where she'd like to go to grad school. Nearly all of her choices (maybe all?) are in Germany or Denmark. Not sure about the latter but in Germany it is cheaper for her to attend than it
would be here in the states. If she were a German citizen, it would be
"free" in the sense that her taxes would be paying for it instead of her
paying tuition directly.

The expired student visa thing was that a lot of students who
graduated didn't want to leave the country and return home.

IIRC, the same happens here.

Mike

* SLMR 2.1a * Hold on! Doesn't NT mean NinTendo ?
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

They always used to say that young people were Liberals and,

> > as they got older, turned into Conservatives..

The ones I have kept "in touch" with (on FB) did not turn conservative. They

>re mostly "left" of "Liberal" and still very much are. ;)

Really.. Often once they get out there and start making money, and trying
to make enough to have a good life, they realize that the less socialist systems give a lot more room for advancement. The idea of treating
everyone the same no matter how bad they are also treats those who are exceptional worse than they deserve due to Union Contracts and such.

Very much really. Although at least some of them did seem to be fairly, if
not exceptionally, intelligent, I am under the impression that most all of
them underachieved (and some by a great deal).

In a True communist setup, people are evaluated at a very young age
and trained to do a job they are naturally going to be talented at.

I honestly think that this part is not necessarily a bad idea. *IF* used properly, it could prevent a lot of people from getting useless degrees in things that they have no talent at and/or will never be in much demand.

Everyone is expected to do a fair day's work and all are given the
same living conditions regardless of their actual job, but that's the fantasy. Someone has to be in charge of things and they always set
themselves up (and their friends and families) as an upper class, and
it always seems to be a very greedy class and you end up with 75%
of the money going to 2% of the people..

Yes, the USSR had a name for that upper class but the name escapes me at
the moment.

I mean, look at Putin.. He was just an upper level KGB soldier
when he took over as president and today he is worth as much
as $200 Billion, depending on source. (Some say $70 Billion)

Technically, Russia is no longer communist. That said, I strongly believe
that many of the broken things going on over there are because the people
in charge were part of that USSR upper class discussed above & they've not really changed enough how they do things.

IMHO, this is not a problem with capitalism, per se. It is a problem with th

>overnment not properly regulating things. Overregulation is bad, but so is
t
>little...

I was thinking back before unions existed where people running companies
paid workers so little they could barely afford to eat but the owners
were getting wealthy from their labour. Unions came in to correct that situation, but in some cases they have gone too far now too..

We had very little government regulation back then. IMHO, government
policy didn't evolve quickly enough to keep up with the Industrial
Revolution and the changes in "employment opportunities" that it caused.

I think things are not too bad when you have some controls like minimum
wage levels, maximum hours to work and safety standards, but I'm still
a proponent of being able to get ahead faster is you are smarter or
a harder worker.

Something that isn't easy to do under Communism or, as you found out, in a Union shop -- unless you are a member of the "in crowd."

Over the years I benefitted more from employers
breaking the union contract for me than any good the union ever did
for me. But I saw how the union was really great for some who were
lazy, incompetent, or absent a lot and such. I watched it take almost
3 years to get rid of one worker who was missing over 100 days of work
a year due to drinking problems..

IMHO, Unions could still have a place if they stayed out of politics, and
also stopped protecting those who are really lazy, incompentent, etc... i.e. those that "real" Communism would likely not protect.

Mike

* SLMR 2.1a * True Multitasking = 3 PCs and a chair with wheels!
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

They always used to say that young people were Liberals and,
as they got older, turned into Conservatives..

That's because when they were young, they had little and wanted free stuff.

As they got older, they realized that there was no free stuff and what they thought was "free" when they were young was actually stolen from others.

And as they are older, they have stuff and don't want the gov't to take it to give to others.

It's been said (arguably) that Communism is the best form of government but the problem is it relies on total honesty for it to work properly
so, knowing humans, it's never going to work.

A centra point of Communism is the concept of "Central Planning". Central Planning will never work and has been proven to be unable to work. Central Planning will cause the collapse of Communism even if everyone was honest.

... Error 3032 - Recursion error. See error 3032.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Classic BBS (618:250/46)

Americans increasingly don't believe in meritocracy because they are
used to getting everything handed to them.

I must disagree.

We increasingly don't believe in meritocracy because too often politics gets involved and the person who actually did the work gets the shaft, while the politically connected gets the rewards.

This applies to corporations as well gov't.

... We all live in a yellow subroutine...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Classic BBS (618:250/46)

Communism brings out greed and the thirst for absolute power in people.

You hit that right on the head. The least charitable societies are Communist ones. I always thought that it was because they are able to get so little that they want to hold on hard to what they have.

The unions served their purpose. They don't have any purpose anymore because, if you look close, unions are a form of communism and they
suffer the same issues as I listed above.

I've spent decades working with unions (Teacher's unions, UAW, etc.) Their main purpose, in my experience, is to protect the incompetent and lazy.

... A social life? Where can I download that!?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Classic BBS (618:250/46)

I see that in Canada as well.. Young people especially do not want to
work. My mother used to go crazy trying to find a highschool kid
who would cut her grass for $50 an hour..

I used to mow lawns for a buck back in the 80s.

When I was about 13 I agreed to take over mowing the lawn at home
for an extra 75 cents a week on my allowance. The lawn there was
close to an acre and no riding mower back then.. B)

Off season I think snow shovelling a double wide driveway 60 ft
long replaced that..

Once I was 16 and had my own transportation I found I could make
a lot more money for a lot less work away from home..

Heck, my first job working in a grocery store payed a whole 80 cents
an hour.. B)

---
* SLMR Rob * What this country needs is a good five cent ANYTHING!
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Hello Mike!

** On Saturday 29.11.25 - 17:47, Mike Powell wrote to ROB MCCART:

I mean, look at Putin.. He was just an upper level KGB soldier
when he took over as president and today he is worth as much
as $200 Billion, depending on source. (Some say $70 Billion)

Technically, Russia is no longer communist. That said, I strongly
believe that many of the broken things going on over there are because
the people in charge were part of that USSR upper class discussed above & they've not really changed enough how they do things.

Russia is an oligarchy.

Take a look at "How to Slay a Dragon - Mikhail Khodorkovsky"

or.. "Putin's People - Catherine Belton"
or.. "Once Upon a Time in Russia: The Rise of the Oligarchs-A
True Story of Ambition, Wealth, Betrayal, and Murder - Ben
Mezrich"

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.64
* Origin: (618:400/23.10)

Dr. What wrote to digimaus <=-

I've spent decades working with unions (Teacher's unions, UAW, etc.)
Their main purpose, in my experience, is to protect the incompetent and lazy.

I was a member of the United Food & Commercial Worker's Union (Local 555
in Portland, Oregon) when I was 16 in 1989 at a unionized supermarket in Scappoose, Oregon (about 30 miles NE of Portland). I was forced to pay
$40 a month--a lot when you're making $4.75 an hour--to the union just
to keep my job. I quit that job in a few months.

When I was working at the Mountain Home (TN) VA Hospital, the American Federation of Government Employees union was pestering me to join them.
Besides offring additional insurance, they held no advantages for me
over the government benefits already had...and why there is a union for government employees is beyond me; I never had issues with the pay or
benefits I was receiving. Thankfully, union mmbership was optional.

Don't get me wrong, unions had their place and time. But what
advantages they offer now are seeminingly miniscule.

There's even an IT union. I laughed when I heard that.

-- Sean

... Confucius say: "It's stuffy inside fortune cookie."
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Rob Mccart wrote to SEAN DENNIS <=-

Once I was 16 and had my own transportation I found I could make
a lot more money for a lot less work away from home..

I was home schooled and when I graduated school on June 1, 1989, the
next day I was out looking for work.

Even though I am disabled, I'd like to work, but I need to have my reconstruction surgery and get in much better health. There's also the
fact if I give up Social Security now, I'd not be able to get it again
until I am 67. That means, as of now, I'd have to wait another 14 years
before I could get it again if I needed it.

Heck, my first job working in a grocery store payed a whole 80 cents
an hour.. B)

Reminds me of my late maternal grandfather telling me that his dad got
mad at him for paying eight cents a gallon for gas. XD

-- Sean

... Kitman's Law: pure drivel tends to drive away ordinary drivel.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

August Abolins wrote to Mike Powell <=-

Take a look at "How to Slay a Dragon - Mikhail Khodorkovsky"

Just watching the news can prove that.

-- Sean

... Maybe broccoli doesn't like you either.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Mayors very much have sway here, at least in larger cities, when it comes

>to setting the fiscal policy -- like proposing new city taxes. In most
>cities, they have to work with the local council or board of alderman
>which, if they are mostly all from the same party often means little
>resistance. Together, they can really make a city business friendly, or very
>much not, depending on which path they choose.

Yes, that is true I suppose. There is always a Council involved to, theoretically, keep anything too extreme brought into law but, as
you suggested, the Council is usually on the Mayor's side for most
things.

They've done that here, made the property taxes higher for the new
wealthy people coming into the area without greatly increasing
taxes for those who have been here for many years.
But to be fair, those who have been here for years usually paid
less than $75,000 for a property where new buyers building on a
new lot are often into $3 or $4 million, so they can probably
afford the higher taxes more easily than some retired owner..

I'd have to check into it but I think it's more than just the
more expensive property times the mill rate or, if it is, then
there may be a maximum % the property taxes can go up each year.

I looked it up in the meantime. The part of the NYSE that is moving to

>Dallas is currently located in Chicago. Sounds like it is some sort of
>tech center.

Yes, I caught that bit on the news the next night.

---
* SLMR Rob * You skin this one. I'm going back out for another one!
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Of course the Universities are not happy because they charge

>> foreign students a lot more than they do Canadian residents,
>> and new applicants for that are being cut way back.

Interesting. My niece is deciding where she'd like to go to grad school.

>Nearly all of her choices (maybe all?) are in Germany or Denmark. Not sure
>about the latter but in Germany it is cheaper for her to attend than it
>would be here in the states. If she were a German citizen, it would be
>"free" in the sense that her taxes would be paying for it instead of her
>paying tuition directly.

My next door neighbours, they are Canadians but they work and
live in the USA and the cost of the Universities down there for a
non resident is amazingly high. Fortunately they make a Lot of
money and don't seem too worried about it. I half expected them
to ship the kids back to Canada in Residence to finish their
education at about 20% the cost.

---
* SLMR Rob * I can resist anything but temptation
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Really.. Often once they get out there and start making money, and trying

>> to make enough to have a good life, they realize that the less socialist
>> systems give a lot more room for advancement. The idea of treating
>> everyone the same no matter how bad they are also treats those who are
>> exceptional worse than they deserve due to Union Contracts and such.

Very much really. Although at least some of them did seem to be fairly, if

>not exceptionally, intelligent, I am under the impression that most all of
>them underachieved (and some by a great deal).

Yes, that's often the case. As I've said, when you get paid the same
whether you work hard or not, you can only beat the system by working
as little as you can get away with.

In a True communist setup, people are evaluated at a very young age

>> and trained to do a job they are naturally going to be talented at.

I honestly think that this part is not necessarily a bad idea. *IF* used

>properly, it could prevent a lot of people from getting useless degrees in
>things that they have no talent at and/or will never be in much demand.

Yes, there are a lot of University graduates who don't have any
knowledge that will help them get or keep a job..

Someone has to be in charge of things and they always set

>> themselves up (and their friends and families) as an upper class, and
>> it always seems to be a very greedy class and you end up with 75%
>> of the money going to 2% of the people..

Yes, the USSR had a name for that upper class but the name escapes me at

>the moment.

Nomenklatura? By root it's the same as Nomenclature, but in their
case it defined an elite 'ruling class' who worked at or appointed
all people who got the high ranking jobs.

Technically, Russia is no longer communist. That said, I strongly believe

>that many of the broken things going on over there are because the people
>in charge were part of that USSR upper class discussed above & they've not
>really changed enough how they do things.

Yes, that's true although I think the people Living there are still
treated the same as when it was fully Communist. These days, calling
it a democracy is a joke.. It's more a dictatorship under Putin
supporting the uber wealthy who help keep him in power.

Over the years I benefitted more from employers

>> breaking the union contract for me than any good the union ever did
>> for me. But I saw how the union was really great for some who were
>> lazy, incompetent, or absent a lot and such.

IMHO, Unions could still have a place if they stayed out of politics, and

>also stopped protecting those who are really lazy, incompentent, etc... i.e.
>those that "real" Communism would likely not protect.

The problem always exists, what do you do with those people? If they
are not working then there's not much they can do other than turn to
crime or die in the streets.. If Welfare is easy to get, you get too
many people taking it while they do things under the table to make
more money (like selling drugs)..

There's never any easy answers..

---
* SLMR Rob * Earn cash in your spare time -- blackmail your friends
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

I mean, look at Putin.. He was just an upper level KGB soldier
when he took over as president and today he is worth as much
as $200 Billion, depending on source. (Some say $70 Billion)

Technically, Russia is no longer communist. That said, I strongly believe that many of the broken things going on over there are because the people in charge were part of that USSR upper class discussed above &
they've not really changed enough how they do things.

Russia is an oligarchy.

Take a look at "How to Slay a Dragon - Mikhail Khodorkovsky"

or.. "Putin's People - Catherine Belton"
or.. "Once Upon a Time in Russia: The Rise of the Oligarchs-A
True Story of Ambition, Wealth, Betrayal, and Murder - Ben
Mezrich"

Yes, I know, but I believe that their problems started because they didn't really change enough how they did things and "oligarchy" is what they
settled into as a result.

Mike

* SLMR 2.1a * Never mind the star, get those camels off my lawn!
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

They've done that here, made the property taxes higher for the new
wealthy people coming into the area without greatly increasing
taxes for those who have been here for many years.
But to be fair, those who have been here for years usually paid
less than $75,000 for a property where new buyers building on a
new lot are often into $3 or $4 million, so they can probably
afford the higher taxes more easily than some retired owner..

If you want to keep an area from becoming overdeveloped, that is probably a good way to do it.

There has been a lot of concern here in the states about how many small to mid-sized "non-company" farms are being bought up for development. The
number that are sold to non-farm interests is pretty staggering.

Mike


* SLMR 2.1a * Who is John Galt?
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Interesting. My niece is deciding where she'd like to go to grad school.

>Nearly all of her choices (maybe all?) are in Germany or Denmark. Not sure
>about the latter but in Germany it is cheaper for her to attend than it
>would be here in the states. If she were a German citizen, it would be
>"free" in the sense that her taxes would be paying for it instead of her
>paying tuition directly.

My next door neighbours, they are Canadians but they work and
live in the USA and the cost of the Universities down there for a
non resident is amazingly high. Fortunately they make a Lot of
money and don't seem too worried about it. I half expected them
to ship the kids back to Canada in Residence to finish their
education at about 20% the cost.

Unless the kids are qualifying to attend universities that the parents
believe are somehow better than what is available in Canada, I am very surprised they didn't have them schooled there. Some states and/or
individual state institutions do give discounts for non-residents who are living and/or working in the state (and paying taxes there) but that is rare.

Mike

* SLMR 2.1a * Vanyel Ashkevon, Tylendel and Stefen, r.i.p.
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Someone has to be in charge of things and they always set

>> themselves up (and their friends and families) as an upper class, and
>> it always seems to be a very greedy class and you end up with 75%
>> of the money going to 2% of the people..

Yes, the USSR had a name for that upper class but the name escapes me at

>the moment.

Nomenklatura? By root it's the same as Nomenclature, but in their
case it defined an elite 'ruling class' who worked at or appointed
all people who got the high ranking jobs.

<loud Charlie Brown voice>THAT'S IT!</voice> :D

I am surprised I forgot that one. I use it enough.

Technically, Russia is no longer communist. That said, I strongly believe

>that many of the broken things going on over there are because the people
>in charge were part of that USSR upper class discussed above & they've not
>really changed enough how they do things.

Yes, that's true although I think the people Living there are still
treated the same as when it was fully Communist. These days, calling
it a democracy is a joke..

Yes, that is part of the problem. They supposedly did away with the
Communist form of government but never completely changed their stripes.
They seemed like they might be on the right track, at first, until...

It's more a dictatorship under Putin
supporting the uber wealthy who help keep him in power.

This. ;)

Mike

* SLMR 2.1a * Visit Scenic Melnibon?
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

When I was working at the Mountain Home (TN) VA Hospital, the American Federation of Government Employees union was pestering me to join them. Besides offring additional insurance, they held no advantages for me
over the government benefits already had...and why there is a union for government employees is beyond me;..I never had issues with the pay or benefits I was receiving. Thankfully, union mmbership was optional.

Some unions are just for things like (additional) insurance. They really
don't operate like the "mandatory" ones. They may also provide some
grievance contraptions for those who believe they do have issues with pay
or benefits, but I wonder how effective those are in that type of union.

Don't get me wrong, unions had their place and time. But what
advantages they offer now are seeminingly miniscule.

There's even an IT union. I laughed when I heard that.

Several years ago, one of our governors was getting a lot of support from
the unions. They got in good enough that the administration allowed them
to try to unionize the employees... those that were not law enforcement or teachers, which were already in unions.

Some classifications got to choose unions that were at least somewhat
related to the work they did, while others -- including IT -- were given
the opportunity to choose to join the United Auto Workers (???). There
were some other off-the-wall choices like that.

IMHO, unions like the UAW wanted a piece of the pie because their workforce of actual auto workers was going down. The unions also wanted a piece of the state employee retirement fund. I think maybe the administration thought
it might be a good idea so they could get out of providing insurance -- the unions would take that over.

It was an all-or-nothing employee vote. We voted unionizing of state
employees down, so none of the unions in question got involved with state government and it never came up again.

Mike

* SLMR 2.1a * A Crucifix? Oy vey, have YOU got the wrong vampire...
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Mike Powell wrote to DIGIMAUS <=-

Some unions are just for things like (additional) insurance. They
really don't operate like the "mandatory" ones. They may also provide some grievance contraptions for those who believe they do have issues
with pay or benefits, but I wonder how effective those are in that type
of union.

The AFGE is a full-fledged union as they negotiate contracts with the
federal government. They also protect poor employees that are union
members from getting fired. If yoiu get fired from a fed job and you're
a union member, that's -bad-.

Don't get me wrong, unions had their place and time. But what
advantages they offer now are seeminingly miniscule.

It was an all-or-nothing employee vote. We voted unionizing of state employees down, so none of the unions in question got involved with
state government and it never came up again.

It's like how the UAW is trying desperately to unionize all of the foreign-owned car factories down here in the South. It ain't workin'.
People know better and are treated better by the foreign car companies.

-- Sean

... The world does not owe you anything. You are not a loan.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Mike Powell wrote to AUGUST ABOLINS <=-

Yes, I know, but I believe that their problems started because they
didn't really change enough how they did things and "oligarchy" is what they settled into as a result.

Greedy power-hungry people never change.

-- Sean

... Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Rob Mccart wrote to MIKE POWELL <=-

My next door neighbours, they are Canadians but they work and
live in the USA and the cost of the Universities down there for a
non resident is amazingly high.

That started when Obama got the feds into the student loan business and
all the .edus jacked up their prices skyhigh for everyone to freeload
off of the federal government.

I waited 24 years after high school and working in IT for 26 years
before I earned a degree--an associate of applied science degree in
network system adminisatration from ITT Tech--and my future employers
liked that I had a degree, but they much preferred all of my various
hands-on experience.

A high-priced degree means jackshit these days.

Looking back, I should've gone to school to earn my welding certificate
when I was 18. I'd be close to retirement by now.

-- digi






... For success: try aspiration, inspiration, and perspiration.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

They always used to say that young people were Liberals and,
as they got older, turned into Conservatives..

That's because when they were young, they had little and wanted free stuff.

I'm not sure it's that simple. Although my version of 'young' probably
covered anyone under 25 or so, many teens these days have so much
handed to them by their parents they don't even realize there's any
other way to live.

I recall my grand-niece (age 7 or so) once wanted some expensive toy
and her mother said they couldn't afford it, and her daughter said
you just go to the bank machine and it gives you more money. She had
no idea where that money came from..

That said, I used the word Liberal and maybe Socialistic would've
been better. When I was younger I worked recruiting people to
join Greenpeace.. "Save the whales!".. and most young people think
that rich people should give money to poor people since they have
so much more than they need.

I remember talking to a fellow in Australia who wanted to take away
all the money from the rich and divide it among everyone in the world.
I asked him what he planned to use the $2000 or so that would be his
share. Turned out he was looking for a pay day, not a reduction..

Anyways, those who haven't worked hard earning money don't put
as much value on it and many get drawn into the support the poor
everywhere ideals, mainly because it's not going to come out of
their pockets..

These days it's hard to talk yourself into giving a lot of money
to 'Charity' when your gov't is giving so much of your tax
dollars away to that for you, which increases our national debt
and costs us all more in the long run..

I give money to charity most years but these days I tend to
concentrate more on those helping people in my community and I
don't get as involved in world wide problems..

---
* SLMR Rob * Xerox never comes up with anything original
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Once I was 16 and had my own transportation I found I could make
a lot more money for a lot less work away from home..

I was home schooled and when I graduated school on June 1, 1989,

>the next day I was out looking for work.

The last 2 years I was in highschool I was working over 30 hours
a week while school was in, and longer hours in the summer..
That allowed me to have a pretty kewl muscle car and motorcycle
but, once I was working, my parents stopped buying me things like
clothing and pretty much anything other than food on the rare
occasions I was there at meal times..

Even though I am disabled, I'd like to work, but I need to have my

>reconstruction surgery and get in much better health. There's also the
>fact if I give up Social Security now, I'd not be able to get it again
>until I am 67. That means, as of now, I'd have to wait another 14 years
>before I could get it again if I needed it.

Yes, it can be a mess in that situation. My brother has been on
disability for years and he's got to be careful he doesn't do
anything to earn money or he may be cut off..

Heck, my first job working in a grocery store payed a whole 80 cents
an hour.. B)

Reminds me of my late maternal grandfather telling me that his dad got

>mad at him for paying eight cents a gallon for gas. XD

Ha.. yes, I remember filling up a small car for about $3.50..
Of course if you compare incomes and the cost of gas back then
to now, we may have been paying more at that time.. B)

---
* SLMR Rob * George Orwell was an optimist
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Rob Mccart wrote to DIGIMAUS <=-

The last 2 years I was in highschool I was working over 30 hours
a week while school was in, and longer hours in the summer..
That allowed me to have a pretty kewl muscle car and motorcycle
but, once I was working, my parents stopped buying me things like
clothing and pretty much anything other than food on the rare
occasions I was there at meal times..

I contributed to grocery and rent funds when I was at home. I was gone
a lot as a teemn but I did like to eat at home when I could.

My parents are buying a house soon here in town and my mom as mentioned
she'd like to have a family dinner often as my younger lives in town
also. It'd be nice to spend more time together as we're all older now.

Yes, it can be a mess in that situation. My brother has been on
disability for years and he's got to be careful he doesn't do
anything to earn money or he may be cut off..

Social Security's allowed monthly work income levels are based offof
1984 wages; Congress has never adjusted them for inflation.

Ha.. yes, I remember filling up a small car for about $3.50..
Of course if you compare incomes and the cost of gas back then
to now, we may have been paying more at that time.. B)

I was complaining when I was 16 about paying 69 cents a gallon for gas.
I was driving a 1978 Ford LTD that never passed a gas station.

-- digi


... Did you know corduroy pillows are in style? They're making headlines.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Don't get me wrong, unions had their place and time. But what
advantages they offer now are seeminingly miniscule.

A very long time ago, when I lived in Flint, MI, a local grocer bought up all the old Kroger stores and move them to his company: Kessel. No problems here, but he refused to recognize the union. Employees could join if they wanted, but he would not bargain with the union.

In "union hotbed" like Flint, that was a cardinal sin and the UAW members who were laid off, were paid to "picket" outside of his stores. That lasted about a year.

But the employees said the same thing: He's nice. Pays us well. Good benefits. Good working conditions. Why do we need a union?

... A PC a day keeps the Apple away!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Classic BBS (618:250/46)

But to be fair, those who have been here for years usually paid

>> less than $75,000 for a property where new buyers building on a
>> new lot are often into $3 or $4 million, so they can probably
>> afford the higher taxes more easily than some retired owner..

If you want to keep an area from becoming overdeveloped, that is probably a

>good way to do it.

If you already own here it's good because they now require you to
have a lot that is 330 feet wide and at least 2 acres to get a
building permit, so we don't end up with a new cottage every 50 feet
like they did further South in areas like Muskoka..

There has been a lot of concern here in the states about how many small to

>mid-sized "non-company" farms are being bought up for development. The
>number that are sold to non-farm interests is pretty staggering.

Yes, that's been a problem here for many years as well.

---
* SLMR Rob * It is the business of the future to be dangerous
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

My next door neighbours, they are Canadians but they work and

>> live in the USA and the cost of the Universities down there for a
>> non resident is amazingly high. Fortunately they make a Lot of
>> money and don't seem too worried about it. I half expected them
>> to ship the kids back to Canada in Residence to finish their
>> education at about 20% the cost.

Unless the kids are qualifying to attend universities that the parents

>believe are somehow better than what is available in Canada, I am very
>surprised they didn't have them schooled there. Some states and/or
>individual state institutions do give discounts for non-residents who are
>living and/or working in the state (and paying taxes there) but that is rare.

They are going to the Ivy League Universities there and I think
they believe the contacts you make in places like that will lead
to better success later than a lesser known school making it
worth the extra cost.

I'm not sure about their tax situation. The father is a Very
high ranking person for McDonalds and they arrange odd things
for them wherever they lived. They were never penalized for
not spending enough time in Canada and maybe pay their taxes
to Canada rather than the country they are working in.

Actually the taxes in the USA might be lower when you're
making $Millions a year..

In the past he was the CFO for McDonalds in Eastern Europe and
then later CFO for Asia, and now he is one of the top people in
North America (higher than CFO), which is the most prestigious
place to work for them.

---
* SLMR Rob * If Murphy's Law can go wrong -- it will
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Yes, the USSR had a name for that upper class but the name escapes me at

>the moment.

Nomenklatura? By root it's the same as Nomenclature, but in their

>> case it defined an elite 'ruling class' who worked at or appointed
>> all people who got the high ranking jobs.

<loud Charlie Brown voice>THAT'S IT!</voice> :D

I am surprised I forgot that one. I use it enough.

I did a search for that to be honest. If I'd heard it before it
didn't stick with me. August's comment that it's an Oligarchy is
a good name for it but, because the country started out communist,
I think the lower class is handled a little differently than they
would be in another country.

Yes, that is part of the problem. They supposedly did away with the

>Communist form of government but never completely changed their stripes.
>They seemed like they might be on the right track, at first, until...

It's more a dictatorship under Putin

>> supporting the uber wealthy who help keep him in power.

This. ;)

You know you have a problem when the first thing your Democratically
elected President does is eliminate any future elections, and then
starts eliminating anyone who speaks out against him..

---
* SLMR Rob * Hindsight is an exact science
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Some classifications got to choose unions that were at least somewhat

>related to the work they did, while others -- including IT -- were given
>the opportunity to choose to join the United Auto Workers (???). There
>were some other off-the-wall choices like that.

Yes, the unions just want to get bigger giving them more power to
control the companies they get into.

As I've said, I'm not a big fan of Unions but you can imagine some
of the 'fun' conversations I've had with my sister who was the
Head of the Teacher's Union in Ontario a few years back.. B)

---
* SLMR Rob * Opportunity always knocks at the least opportune moment
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

It's like how the UAW is trying desperately to unionize all of the

>foreign-owned car factories down here in the South. It ain't workin'.
>People know better and are treated better by the foreign car companies.

My brother worked for Sears Canada for over 20 years and the Unions
tried over and over to get in there and they were always voted down.
They figured they were treated well enough as things were..

---
* SLMR Rob * Opportunity always knocks at my door... then runs away
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

I waited 24 years after high school and working in IT for 26 years

>before I earned a degree--an associate of applied science degree in
>network system adminisatration from ITT Tech--and my future employers
>liked that I had a degree, but they much preferred all of my various
>hands-on experience.

A high-priced degree means jackshit these days.

I took some college courses at times for jobs but never got an
actual University degree. It seems unless you want to be a Doctor
or a Lawyer, most degrees are not a lot of use, but you need one
if you want to work for the government.

My last job not working for myself, I discovered that the work
I had been doing qualified me for an Engineering degree in
Plastics, much like an apprenticeship, but my bosses never let
me know that, nor applied for it as they'd have to pay me more.

When a big competitor heard I was leaving, they offered me 50%
more than I was earning there if I'd come work for them.

I considered it but was a little sick of working for others
by then so I ended up self employed (or self unemployed?).. B)

---
* SLMR Rob * If you don't care where you are -- then you ain't lost
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

They are going to the Ivy League Universities there and I think
they believe the contacts you make in places like that will lead
to better success later than a lesser known school making it
worth the extra cost.

Yes, get into one of their secret societies and be the ones running
things after AI takes over. :D

Mike


* SLMR 2.1a * Eschew Obfuscation!
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Nomenklatura? By root it's the same as Nomenclature, but in their

>> case it defined an elite 'ruling class' who worked at or appointed
>> all people who got the high ranking jobs.

I am surprised I forgot that one. I use it enough.

I did a search for that to be honest. If I'd heard it before it
didn't stick with me. August's comment that it's an Oligarchy is
a good name for it but, because the country started out communist,
I think the lower class is handled a little differently than they
would be in another country.

I use it pretty often when disagreeing with someone who thinks that
everything is equal in communist countries. Kulaks and Holomodor are
another couple of good ones to know.

Mike

* SLMR 2.1a * Four snack groups: frozen, crunchies, cakes and sweets.
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Dr. What wrote to digimaus <=-

But the employees said the same thing: He's nice. Pays us well. Good benefits. Good working conditions. Why do we need a union?

That's exactly what the foreign car factory workers said.

Kroger is the largest grocery store chain in the US and the UFCW has
them by the balls. One of the reasons Kroger is the most expensive
grocery store chain in the US also.

-- Sean


... "Bother," said Pooh as Caesar gasped "Et tu, Poohte?"
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Rob Mccart wrote to DIGIMAUS <=-

My brother worked for Sears Canada for over 20 years and the Unions
tried over and over to get in there and they were always voted down.
They figured they were treated well enough as things were..

Unions bring in a lot of expensive overhead, unneeded and unwanted
overhead and rules, corruption, greed, and makes everything more
expensive in the long run.

-- Sean

... COBOL programs are an exercise in artificial inelegance.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Rob Mccart wrote to DIGIMAUS <=-

I considered it but was a little sick of working for others
by then so I ended up self employed (or self unemployed?).. B)

If it wasn't for Social Security's Byzantine and outdated rules, a
friend and I would start our own IT consulting business together.
Working for yourself is nice. A lot of things to worry about but when
you feel it's time to quit for th day, no one's going to tell you "no".

-- Sean


... Sevareid's Law: the chief cause of problems is solutions.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Hello Rob!

** On Wednesday 03.12.25 - 09:19, Rob Mccart wrote to MIKE POWELL:

I'm not sure about their tax situation. The father is a Very
high ranking person for McDonalds [...]

Last time I set foot in one of those was one time in 1999.


--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.64
* Origin: (618:400/23.10)

Hello August,

03 Dec 25 20:03, you wrote to Rob Mccart:

Last time I set foot in one of those was one time in 1999.

I can go to an all-you-can-eat buffet for the price of a "value meal" at McDonald's these days.

I remember back in the early 80s when you could buy an "All-American" meal (cheeseburger, small fries, and a small drink) for USD$1.29.

-- Sean

... Oxygen and magnesium are dating. OMg!
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Rob Mccart wrote to MIKE POWELL <=-

When I was in college, the people who most loudly proclaimed

> that they were "Democrats" were all social/communists.

They always used to say that young people were Liberals and,
as they got older, turned into Conservatives..

It's been said (arguably) that Communism is the best form of government but the problem is it relies on total honesty for it to work properly
so, knowing humans, it's never going to work.
Pretty much all communist countries have a VERY weathy small upper
class and a very poor everyone else in a system where everyone is
supposed to, in theory, share everything equally.

So, in the end, if working hard gets you nothing extra then the only
way to beat the system is to do as little work as you can possibly
get away with, then you make the same as your neighbour does while
doing less work than they do. Commie countries aren't usually well
known for their high production output..

It's not new, and I didn't come up with it, but there's the story about
the professor who wanted to PROVE to his 'young adult class' that
socialism was NOT the way to go.

So he started taking the highest grade in the class and taking points
off and giving to the lowest, then next highest to next lowest, etc.
Until everyone had the same grade.

Well it didn't take long for people to realize they'd get the same
thing even if they didn't do the work, so they stopped working. But
then NO ONE was doing ANY work so there was no 'points' to go around.



... The Pillsbury Dough Boy is a roll model..
=== MultiMail/Mac v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.32-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (618:250/24)

Mike Powell wrote to Rob Mccart <=-

It's been said (arguably) that Communism is the best form of government
but the problem is it relies on total honesty for it to work properly
so, knowing humans, it's never going to work.
Pretty much all communist countries have a VERY weathy small upper
class and a very poor everyone else in a system where everyone is
supposed to, in theory, share everything equally.

Communism can work if it is voluntary, i.e. one joins a commune and one can leave if one doesn't like it. As a form of government, it can
never really work because it is compulsary and many folks won't like receiving the same reward for hard work while watching others that are rewarded for doing just the bare minimum.

This is partly how people claim Christian churches are socialist, because
the strong help the weak. BUT - it's voluntary... And in the first few centuries they DID take care of the widows and the orphans.

Fast forward to today and if the 'church' would do that today... Well...
We wouldn't need welfare, etc.

But man is, on the whole, greedy...



... Before the crowbar was invented, crows had to drink at home.
=== MultiMail/Mac v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.32-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (618:250/24)

The last 2 years I was in highschool I was working over 30 hours
a week while school was in, and longer hours in the summer..
but, once I was working, my parents stopped buying me things like
clothing and pretty much anything other than food on the rare
occasions I was there at meal times..

I contributed to grocery and rent funds when I was at home. I was gone

>a lot as a teen but I did like to eat at home when I could.

Yes, as long as we were still in school we were not expected to
contribute to room and board, but as soon as yu left school,
let's just say I moved in with a girlfriend because it was
cheaper to pay rent and such there than to live at home.

My parents are buying a house soon here in town and my mom as mentioned

>she'd like to have a family dinner often as my younger lives in town
>also. It'd be nice to spend more time together as we're all older now.

That's a great thing and best to take advantage while you still can.
Over the past few years I lost both my mother and father and you
don't think about things until they are gone. I was fortunate that
I lived only 20 miles from them so I could spend a lot of time
visiting with them and helping them out while by brother and sister
were hundreds of miles away and only saw them a few times a year.
We were lucky they both lived into their 90's..

Ha.. yes, I remember filling up a small car for about $3.50..

I was complaining when I was 16 about paying 69 cents a gallon for gas.

>I was driving a 1978 Ford LTD that never passed a gas station.

When I was 17 I built a 575 HP Chevelle SS and it could only run
on Gas from Sunoco. All other brands of Premium still had the motor
running on when you turned off the ignition. Of course it was more
expensive than the other gas brands too..

That would have been in 1971. Gas was somewhere around 45 cents/gal.

Of course in Canada our gallons were a lot bigger... B)

Oh, and funny story, when I got the car it was already worked on
and about 425 HP, and it got 7 MPG (160 oz Canadian gallons!)..

After I had the motor redone I was really worried what the gas
mileage would end up at.. but apparently it was running so
efficiently that the mileage actually went UP to about 11 MPG..

That's while babying it though..
I could count it in gallons per mile if I was running it hard..

---
* SLMR Rob * Man is the only animal that blushes -- or needs to
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

This is partly how people claim Christian churches are socialist, because
the strong help the weak. BUT - it's voluntary... And in the first few centuries they DID take care of the widows and the orphans.

Fast forward to today and if the 'church' would do that today... Well...
We wouldn't need welfare, etc.

It is too bad that they somehow mostly got out of that business. IMHO, religious charities seem to care more overall than government ones.

Mike

* SLMR 2.1a * Squirt guns don't soak people, People soak people.
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Rob Mccart wrote to DIGIMAUS <=-

That's a great thing and best to take advantage while you still can.
Over the past few years I lost both my mother and father and you
don't think about things until they are gone. I was fortunate that
I lived only 20 miles from them so I could spend a lot of time
visiting with them and helping them out while by brother and sister
were hundreds of miles away and only saw them a few times a year.
We were lucky they both lived into their 90's..

Both of my parents are in their mid-70s. My dad is severely disabled
and my mom has age-related issues, so it'd be good to be close. The
loss of our parents is an issue with me and my sister (younger) so we'll
be glad when they settle down.

Not to be morbid but my dad (and mymother, as his wife) and I are set up
to be buried at the Mountain Home (TN) National Cemetery here. My
maternal grandparents are interred in the mausoleum there so we'll all
be there in the same cemetery.

I could count it in gallons per mile if I was running it hard..

I remember a guy I knew back in '89 that had a 900HP Nova and he did
that too when he was driving it hard, somthing like 90 miles to a tank
of expensive 140-octane gas!

-- digi


... If you stand by the sea, it sounds like putting a shell to your ear.
--- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

Mike Powell wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

It is too bad that they somehow mostly got out of that business. IMHO, religious charities seem to care more overall than government ones.

My church provided $1.45 billion last year across the world to help
others in need. We believe that we are commanded by God to serve those
in need and indeed truly "love thy neighbor".

https://www.latterdaysaintcharities.org/

-- Sean


... "All is well with him who is beloved by his neighbors." - George Herbert --- MultiMail/Win
* Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)

They are going to the Ivy League Universities there and I think

>> they believe the contacts you make in places like that will lead
>> to better success later than a lesser known school making it
>> worth the extra cost.

Yes, get into one of their secret societies and be the ones running

>things after AI takes over. :D

Maybe just as well because I've met them and I'm not sure how
much HI (Human Intelligence) they have... B)

---
* SLMR Rob * Bankers do it with interest. (Penalty for early withdrwl)
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

My brother worked for Sears Canada for over 20 years and the Unions
tried over and over to get in there and they were always voted down.
They figured they were treated well enough as things were..

Unions bring in a lot of expensive overhead, unneeded and unwanted

>overhead and rules, corruption, greed, and makes everything more
>expensive in the long run.

A bit like insurance.. You pay and you pay and you don't expect
to ever need it, but if you do, it's maybe nice to have them backing
you up..

The one time I got into a bit of a situation and the union Rep
attended the meeting it was a bit of a funny situation..

A soft drink truck driver had dropped a case of pop in my car
to thank me for coming into work an hour early on delivery
days because with the timing of things it let him finish his
last delivery of the day about 2 hours earlier..
And someone who didn't like me much, saw th drop off and
reported it to the manager.

They actually called in someone from head office to confront
me about this egregious crime and, in the end, I ended up
getting a 4 day suspension without pay for 'accepting a bribe'..

Meanwhile, during the meeting, the store manager was crapping
bricks because 2 days earlier I had loaded 15 cases of pop
from the same company into his car which they gave him when
he mentioned to the sales rep that he was having a big party
at his home.. But I didn't say anything..

After my 4 days off, I got called into the office again and
the manager told me he and the union had decided the suspension
without pay was a little extreme so they were removing it.
I said, "But I've already been off work!".. and he said not to
worry about it, I'd get paid for those days.. B)

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* SLMR Rob * Politicians do it to everyone
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

I considered it but was a little sick of working for others
by then so I ended up self employed (or self unemployed?).. B)

If it wasn't for Social Security's Byzantine and outdated rules, a

>friend and I would start our own IT consulting business together.
>Working for yourself is nice. A lot of things to worry about but when
>you feel it's time to quit for th day, no one's going to tell you "no".

And what you find out about working for yourself is, you will probably
have the toughest boss you ever worked for.. B)

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* SLMR Rob * Aerobics instructors do it until it hurts
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

It's not new, and I didn't come up with it, but there's the story about

>the professor who wanted to PROVE to his 'young adult class' that
>socialism was NOT the way to go.

So he started taking the highest grade in the class and taking points

>off and giving to the lowest, then next highest to next lowest, etc.
>Until everyone had the same grade.

Well it didn't take long for people to realize they'd get the same

>thing even if they didn't do the work, so they stopped working. But
>then NO ONE was doing ANY work so there was no 'points' to go around.

Ah, yes, but with true Socialism, if everyone is working at a given
level then that becomes the accepted norm and they would all learn
nothing and get medium marks.. B)

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* SLMR Rob * Test makers do it sometimes/always/never
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)

Over the past few years I lost both my mother and father and you
don't think about things until they are gone. I was fortunate that
I lived only 20 miles from them so I could spend a lot of time
visiting with them and helping them out while by brother and sister
were hundreds of miles away and only saw them a few times a year.
We were lucky they both lived into their 90's..

Both of my parents are in their mid-70s. My dad is severely disabled

>and my mom has age-related issues, so it'd be good to be close. The
>loss of our parents is an issue with me and my sister (younger) so we'll
>be glad when they settle down.

Yes, it can be difficult as they age, especially these days when so
many live to their 80's and 90's. More time for things to go wrong.

My mother had a little trouble getting around but lived in her own
house (with some help from me) until she passed at 92.
My father, unfortunately, ended up in a care facility the last
couple of years before passing at 90. He didn't have Alzheimer's
but something with similar symptoms. Mom and I tried to keep him
at home but when he had a fall one day and ended up in hospital
for treatment, they had a good look at him and said he couldn't
go home with us in the mental condition he was in.

He actually ended up quite happy in the place, although he didn't
know us anymore when we visited, but his happiness was more important.

Not to be morbid but my dad (and mymother, as his wife) and I are set up

>to be buried at the Mountain Home (TN) National Cemetery here. My
>maternal grandparents are interred in the mausoleum there so we'll all
>be there in the same cemetery.

Our family were never ones to get into visiting graveyards.
My parents were both cremated and their ashes were placed in a
big flower garden in front of my place..

I could count it in gallons per mile if I was running it hard..

I remember a guy I knew back in '89 that had a 900HP Nova and he did

>that too when he was driving it hard, somthing like 90 miles to a tank
>of expensive 140-octane gas!

Ha.. One time I didn't pay close enough attention and realized I was
almost totally out of gas at my parents home and it was a fair distance
to a Sunoco gas station so, to be safe, I dumped a gallon of gas my
father had there for the lawn mower into the car.

Surprisingly it actually seemed to run okay if I took it easy, but
when I got to the gas station and turned off the ignition, it ran
on quite smoothly as if it were still on.

I ended up having to put on the brakes and dump the clutch to stall
it since they won't let you fill up a running car.. B)

When I had my engine built they had a standard rebuild that would
have given me 800 HP. (This was a big valve Corvette 327 engine.)
I told them to ignore horsepower sine 327's make lots of that,
and to make all their choices based on what created the most torque.

I ended up with 575 HP (built on a dyno, so accurate) but it put
out the same torque as a 500 cid Cadillac engine.

The man running the place delivered my car to his house, which
was much closer that the tech institute. He later admitted, and
was none to happy about it, that on the way home he, in my car,
and a friend of his who was driving his car home, had a bit of a
drag race, and he was not the least bit happy when my car blew
his off the road.. He had a Special Limited Edition Charger
(actually illegal to sell in Canada) with a 440 six pack that
had other work in it and had been tested and could easily pull
12 second quarter miles..

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* SLMR Rob * Accountants do it until they lose their balance
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (618:250/1)