On 05 Sep 2025 at 02:40p, scarface pondered and said...

I loved the UNIX idea that everything is a file, like routing the out of a tar command to /dev/tape. With BASH, you could kit together lots tools to get what you needed to get done.

I love the power of bash/readline. I also like the quick and dirty raw power but not quite as raw as C you get with scripting. definately aimed towards a certain style of application chaining. bash, like most other things, I always find new things out all the time. Sometimes I haven't even learnt it before then forgot :D

The bash/readline thing does not come from Unix, though. That has
its roots in DEC systems on 36-bit machines; specifically, TENEX/TOPS-20
(I guess TENEX was BBN, not DEC, but the point remains) and ITS (MIT).
The original erase character was '#', and "line kill" was '@', as on
Multics over a teletype; DEL for erase came from DEC terminals, and ^U/^W
and word-kill came from TENEX.

Command-line editing was not seen as a useful feature at Bell Labs; it
went against the ethos of the system, which prized simplicity over that
kind of interactive functionality. Unix was almost simplistic, and
certainly seen as austere.

In Plan 9, this was retained; the shell (`rc`) does not support command
line editing. But, critically, the window system (which also provides
windows running the shell) _does_: all text is editable, and one can
easily highlight and copy ("snarf") and "paste" text; so to edit a command, simply type it and use the window system to edit it before sending it to
the shell.

The window system also provided a "Hold" mode in which the user could
enter multi-line text. In a pinch, `cat` and hold mode in a window
made a serviceable text editor.

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* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

tenser wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Oh really? Wow, that's extremely rare. His name isn't John, is it?

No, but I'm imagining an OS with such a small user base that everyone's
on a first-name basis.

I suppose that's called OS/2. :)




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Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

At first, I read that as "dickless" workstations, and I was wondering
what a dickless workstation would be.. :P

That was the unofficial name back then, back in the "The Network is the Computer" days.



... In England, Baseball is known as American Cricket.
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The bash/readline thing does not come from Unix, though. That has
its roots in DEC systems on 36-bit machines; specifically, TENEX/TOPS-20 (I guess TENEX was BBN, not DEC, but the point remains) and ITS (MIT).
The original erase character was '#', and "line kill" was '@', as on Multics over a teletype; DEL for erase came from DEC terminals, and ^U/^W and word-kill came from TENEX.

Oh cool, TIL! I have glazed over the contents of termios(3) which may have similar roots, or atleast built ontop of similar abstractions.

easily highlight and copy ("snarf") and "paste" text; so to edit a command, simply type it and use the window system to edit it before sending it to the shell.

now that sounds interesting. I've only seen a few screnshots of plan9 and an old video or two but not much. My friend actually has it up and running on his system.
So this editing thing. Would you hit some key to bring up a text window dialog, then enter your text, edit it and whatevs (using sam?), then send it ... anywhere, your printer, your rc, your email, a file. Or would you be in that application and have to manually copy text and then edit (ala how i use tmux actually) then edit it, then paste it back?

enter multi-line text. In a pinch, `cat` and hold mode in a window
made a serviceable text editor.

Yeh i can see how you could still do a lot with that.

Cheers for the enlightenment!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

On 05 Sep 2025 at 09:12a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

tenser wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Oh really? Wow, that's extremely rare. His name isn't John, is it?

No, but I'm imagining an OS with such a small user base that everyone's
on a first-name basis.

I mean, pretty much. :-D

I suppose that's called OS/2. :)

Hahaha...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (21:1/101)

No, but I'm imagining an OS with such a small user base that everyone' on a first-name basis.

I mean, pretty much. :-D

I suppose that's called OS/2. :)

You leave me and Dale and Martha outta this!

Team OS/2!

Was still better than an OS that was out in the 90s. Used it for years.

... It's on that one, the 6th unlabeled floppy.

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Re: Re: linux permissions issue
By: Exodus to Tenser on Tue Sep 09 2025 03:46 pm

Team OS/2!

Was still better than an OS that was out in the 90s. Used it for years.

On my BBS machine, I have Linux Mint installed with the Xfce GUI environment. Currently I'm using an OS/2 style for the window manager for a retro vibe. :)

Nightfox
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Exodus wrote to Tenser <=-

Team OS/2!

Was still better than an OS that was out in the 90s. Used it for
years.

I jest so. I was a huge OS/2 fan in the '90s. Started out running 1.3
in an environment with AS/400s, a netware network and MS LAN MAN
servers. I had copies of Word and Excel for OS/2. Ran a dial-up WAN
with 16 modems on a 386. Later used OS/2 as my desktop when I managed
Novell networks and needed lots of DOS windows for administration
tools. A better DOS than DOS, indeed.

Inherited a LANTastic network from work that only worked on DOS, so I
ran the DOS drivers on the BBS, then created a MS-DOS VDM with the
LANtastic drivers for my first home network. Later, collapsed
everything (desktop and BBS) into a single box running OS/2 Warp.




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